Free Indeed Podcast

FIP 025: How Does a Dad Talk to His Son About Pornography?

January 07, 2019 Mike Hansen Season 1 Episode 25
Free Indeed Podcast
FIP 025: How Does a Dad Talk to His Son About Pornography?
Show Notes Transcript

This is one episode where you get hands on, actionable how to on talking to your son, with (of course) more depth than just a list of things to do. Talking means conversation. Conversation means relationship. 

Speaker 1:

If the son sets you free, you are free. Indeed. Welcome to the free indeed podcast where we believe in freedom, reaching everyone everywhere. Here's your host. Mike Jansen ,

Speaker 2:

Welcome to episode 25 of the free indeed podcast. Our episodes are , uh, our podcast is getting a little older now or past teenage years. We're getting into the adult years now and kind of adulting years actually, you know, so we're getting to be all grown up and having thousands upon thousands of listeners and readers. Actually, that's not the case. We're still slowly growing. This is a slow and steady process we've got going on here. So episode 25, we're going to be back with the two of us, the foundation, the, the beginning, the end, and all in between of free and Dean. That is , uh, Kirk M Samuels and me Mike, your host. So we're back to our format at least for a one or two episodes here. We're going to dig into Kirk's book again as well. Uh, just as a preview for you, Kirk, how in the world are you

Speaker 3:

Best day ever BDE. And , uh, I looked up the meaning of number 25, the meaning of number 25. It's symbolizes grace upon grace. Cause it's five multiplied by five.

Speaker 2:

So grace upon grace is

Speaker 3:

That five is the number of grace

Speaker 2:

Really? Does anybody recall that from episode five ? Because

Speaker 3:

I don't back and listen. Five is the number of grace. So 25 is five times 25. So

Speaker 2:

Grace upon grace. That makes perfect sense upon grace. All right. Yeah. So there's a chance during this episode, you're going to hear a doorbell because a perfect , I I'm going to

Speaker 3:

Be getting six . We ordered pizza.

Speaker 2:

So there's a chance that I might not be able to edit it out. So for anybody who's paying attention, you might hear it in the background. I don't know if the real, I don't know if the mic will pick that up. That's I'm sure it will. All right . Sorry. Hey, on this BDE, do you, are you ready for a great question? Yes.

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

I'm ready for a great question. This is kind of interesting because I would have thought 20 or five episodes in. We would have maybe talked about this. Maybe we have talked about this a few times just as we've talked, but specifically today, I want to know , um, how does a dad talk to his son about pornography? Ooh ,

Speaker 3:

You know what sometimes the best thing to do is something we get caught up a lot in doing the right thing. And how do I say this? Right. And how do I , um, how do I word this, right. And what should I not go into a , should I go into, how much should I be transparent about my experience, all this other kind of stuff. As , as a parent, specifically as a father , um, you know, we just go into a lot of that head space of trying to figure out the right way. And , and in most cases, the right way is just forward. The right way is just to do that. Now for disclosure, I have a 15 year old, he'll be 16 in a few months. And , uh, he was actually adopted who adopted him when he was about six. Um, and so, you know, I mean, in my case, in a way it's kind of easy because of what I do and just keeping him around and, you know, I bring him to stuff and he's been in class and all those kinds of things. So in my case has pretty much just the open conversation always. Um, so I don't have to kind of set up a great scenario to bring it up and talk about it and that kind of stuff. But , uh, but either way, just, just normalizing it. I mean, we, you know, we normalize a lot of things in our culture. We normalize drugs, we normalize, you know, just alcohol, we normalize, you know, sexual preferences, sexual orientations, we normalize a lot of conversation. One thing we don't normalize is healthy sexuality and specifically , um, you know, the , the consumption of pornography. And so a lot of times the , the greatest struggle is just normalizing the topic. You know, if you go to a restaurant and say the word pornography out of the blue, you know, people immediately look, I mean, we, you know, we just had somebody drop off some pizza and , uh, you know, and tell, tell her that we're doing a younger lady, tell her that we're doing a podcast and you know, she's a whip podcast. And , uh, you know, when she found out that we were talking about, you know, fathers talking about sons or talking to sons about pornography, you can tell, she was like, okay. Um , and so this is something that is not normalized in terms of conversation in terms of context. And so, you know, it's just the ability to talk, but just the ability to just bring up something, you know, if you can talk to your son about, you know, about pornography, you can, your son will talk to you about pretty much anything. If you , if you have that level of openness between the two of you, then you will have that level of openness. And if you just make it safe and make it not such a big deal in terms of, you know, not off limits to talk about, you know, they will, you know, they'll bring it up. You know, just prime example literally today, you know, my son texted me out of the blue and, and you know, he's like, dad, I , you know, I , I got this on Instagram and he sent me a screenshot of somebody that sent him, like basically a video clip of some strippers or something like that. And , um, you know, out of the blue, he just said, somebody sent me this, he sent me a screenshot and then he goes out, blocked him. And I was like, cool, good job. And that , that was something that I didn't even have to, I didn't have to prompt him. And he knows I'm not going to freak out if he brings up porn or if he brings up anything like that. And that's been established over, you know , several years, but, but just talking about him and just having the openness to have that level of conversation, that level of transparency is, is huge because these, you know, sons, these young, young, young boys, young men, they want to talk about it, but you know , if we don't make it safe for them to talk about it , then they'll sit back thinking, oh man, that's, you know, that's, that's, that's, we don't talk about that. You know, that's, that's forbidden to talk about is off limits. Uh , talk about anything, man. So, but so the best thing to do is something because you can't really go wrong by opening up the avenue to have the conversation you can't control them. You can't, you know, tell them necessarily what to do and what not to do, especially when they're not with you all the time. Um, but having the avenue or the open door to talk and to have the conversation about anything is important. And so you gotta be able to just have these, have these conversations with our sons .

Speaker 2:

So yeah, something I heard that was important would be the , the idea of being a safe place and being able to let your son know that talking about this, isn't it isn't, at least it shouldn't be a place of shame, even if it is a place of shame. Um, both of you need to at least acknowledge that we can talk about this if it's a place of shame, but we can talk about it in a safe context. Cause I'm not going to change , uh, how I am toward you as a dad. And that's what I've told my son that nothing's going to change. You can't tell me anything that's gonna make my love any different. So, but I think what I'm hearing you say is that the safety part of it kind of the beginning is just make sure that those boys feel safe around you. Uh, that to me is it seems really self-evident , but I know if I was to ever talk to anybody and even as an adult, as a young man in my twenties , um, my history part of my story is where I, I was a pastor for a few years of churches. And , uh, that was a problem that I only brought up with one other guy , uh, one guy in the church, right before I actually left that area. And I felt safe to be able to talk with him, but that was a huge step of faith for me and nobody back , you know , when I was a teenager and a boy, I didn't know the, I didn't know that it was morally, I suppose, wrong. And nobody was telling me it was wrong. It kind of felt wrong, but it also, you know , of course feels good and all of those things , uh , but having that place of safety sounds like a first place to me to start. And at least letting your son know upfront, this is a safe container. This is a safe conversation we're going to have. I'm not going to tell anyone else this. Um, and so whatever you say, and however, this goes in this conversation, it's safe with me and you don't have to worry about this coming back at you in any way. Yeah. I mean ,

Speaker 3:

And you know, a lot of times the whole notion of shame really surrounds kind of the context on what something is. I mean, you know, it's shameful when there is a level of guilt that gets into identity kind of thing. But you know, there , you know , there's no shame when it's this kind of comfort and , and that's the, you know, I mean , even way back in the garden, you know, they walked around naked, you know, there was no shame. It wasn't until the context of, you know , good and evil came into the picture that all of a sudden, the shame existed between them, between them and God specifically between them and their father. And so, you know, to be able to be metaphorically or proverbially naked , um, in terms of connection and relationship between the father and son is , is , is just flat out huge. And , and yes , like I'm not going to freak out, man, if you, you know, if you, and not only that, but I've been where you are is what I tell my son. I've been, I've been a 15, almost 16 year old boy, you know, I know what that's like different time and space. I didn't have smartphones and apps and social media and all that kind of stuff. And I didn't have access to a lot of the things that , that these kids have access to. But at the same time, you know, the experience, there's a lot of commonality. So to be able to have that conversation and be able to say, you know, man, we can just be open and we can just talk about this thing and whatever it is. And then I mean that, and that's one of many things that they will want to talk about over time because you know, our kids are exposed to all kinds of things in school, man, you know, they, unless you keep your, unless you keep your son in a closet at home, I don't care if you homeschool them. If they get out around other kids, they're going to get exposed to a lot of things. And if they go to school, you know, I mean, they are absolutely going to get exposed to a lot of things. You know, a lot of, a lot of our kids are being exposed to all kinds of drugs and there's this different influences in school was that parents would freak out if they really knew. Um, so being able to have that open, open dialogue and like this is judgment, free zone kind of stuff. Like, I'm not going to judge you. I can't judge you. And to your point, I'm definitely not going to stop loving you. Like there's nothing you can do to ever make me stop loving you. You know, there might be times in all honesty where you might do something, I might be disappointed, but I cannot stop loving you. And so to be able to communicate that and be able to have them be open and safe, you know, man, that's, that's what they want. You know, they just want that shadow to come underneath where that protection of a father, especially,

Speaker 2:

Yeah, another guy, the father that's huge important. Um, I know that Brandon has told me in the past when we've talked about it and when we've sort of avoided it, I don't one thing he said is I just didn't want to disappoint you. And you're right. The act itself. I mean, I can't say it's not disappointing, but at the same time, it's so , uh, not surprising, you know, and in today's world and to be able to UN abashedly talk about it. And I heard another , uh, you know, what you brought up was another piece here, and that is , uh, empathy. Um, because not all dads are going to empathize with their kids. I don't empathize just, as you said with the idea that, you know, at 15 years old, I didn't have access to broadband internet. Nobody did let alone in their own hand all the time kind of thing , um , walking around with it in your pocket. Um, but at the same time I get the drive, I get the understanding for, and I understand why it's so appealing. And so that degree of empathy is also important to think about dad's empathize with your son because they're the drive to look at. Pornography comes from a deeper place of boys needing to know that they can be intimate, but we need to model them model this intimacy and in a , in a positive way, as best as we can. And I know not all families are ideal. You don't always have mom and dad at home. And so you're not always seeing the intimacy between mom and dad, but there's plenty of opportunity to be able to talk about this, the right intimacy and the right way to approach intimacy in the right way that con uh , good intimacy should , you know, the good, the right context, that intimacy should, should be happening. Uh, so

Speaker 3:

Well , and to that point, though, let me, let me, and for you to say, to model intimacy. I mean, I think man, that's, that's a game changer right there, because, you know, especially in the context of, I'm going to say non-sexual intimacy because from a guy's perspective, you know, we kind of , you know, the, the way we're commonly , um, trained or groomed , um, we , you know, we grew up as a man and we only see the word intimacy in the context of physical intimacy, sexual intimacy. And so, you know, when, when, when most guys hear the word intimacy, having intimacy with their spouse or having intimacy, you know, with a woman, I mean, the, the first thing they think about is, is, is sexually ironically from a woman's perspective, from a female's perspective, I'll say from a woman's perspective, you know, when, when they hear intimacy, you know, intimacy is not a sexual context. I mean, it's partly, but to women, it's, it's a bigger picture in that. It's so deep it's multi-dimensional. And, and so for a guy to learn at a young age, or to develop it , to be modeled , um, non-sexual non non-sexual intimacy is huge because that's a skill that they're going to have to be able to have going forward, even amongst, even with other guys with friends and that kind of stuff. I mean, that's, that's just a healthy thing. You know, Jesus had intimacy, you know, I mean, with the people he walked with, I mean, and that , that was , uh , a non-sexual kind of context, but it was absolute intimacy. I mean, you know, there were times where he took, you know, he , he , he took, you know, Thomas's hand and say here, put your hand in my wound. I mean, man, that that'll preach. Put your hand in my wound. Oh man. Oh , that's can that's intimacy. That's male . I mean, man, that, Ooh , wow. That's pretty deep right there.

Speaker 2:

That's just not being afraid to , uh, talk about his wound and have someone touch that

Speaker 3:

And somebody touch it, give access to that wound. Wow. Wow man. That's wow. That's at least a chapter of a book right there. Wow. But anyhow, I don't know where that came from, but, but just that , well , I do know where that came from, but the whole notion of being able to share intimacy with others , with somebody else that is, that is non-sexual, non-physical intimate to have that modeled by a father. It is. I mean, it is huge. That's that's that that will create generational blessings to be able to give that gift to your son of like, man, we can just share life and we can just, you know, we can have intimacy and it doesn't have anything to do with sexuality. I mean, that's , that's powerful

Speaker 2:

That part of that modeling is taking this moment to actually talk and have this conversation and just dig in, not digging the sense of you're trying to find deep information. Uh, what about the feelings that a dad might have that could just kind of be inevitable when the son finally does say, yeah, dad, this is something that's happening in my life. What does the dad do with those feelings of, I suppose, surprise, maybe even anger, maybe some sadness. Um, cause I can't, I can't really deny that a guy would have those when it comes to his son, you know, his very son having that experience and there's even a chance the son would say, this has been a part of my life for, you know, 1, 2, 4 or five years, something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

You know , I , I would say probably the first thing to do would be to affirm the sun , like immediately, you know, whenever you meet a man in a place of vulnerability, the best thing that you can do, the most impactful thing you can do to immediately connect with his soul is to affirm him. When you affirm a man in a place of vulnerability, you got him. So

Speaker 2:

Give me an example of affirmation.

Speaker 3:

Like, you know, man, son , whatever the sun , you know, that first of all, that took guts for you to do man. It took guts for you to, to open up and to share that, man, you know, if that's something that's, that's, you know, this painful for you, embarrassing or shameful. Let me tell you, first and foremost, that took a lot of guts for you to tell me that. And I want to acknowledge that, that , uh, that I, that I get big respect for you for doing that. Just something like that, that's it. If nothing else just affirming that, that took some courage to do. And that's it, I mean, it starts , if you start there, then you, the first thing you do is you disarm the shame or you disarm the shame because I mean, the vulnerability is there and you know, for the sun to come to come to dad or you and mama , whomever to come to you with that, the next, the, in their spirit, the next thing they're expecting is shamed to creep right in. And they're expecting shame to just jump on their back and just start ripping them apart from the inside out. So as soon as you step in with affirmation, you give power to the vulnerability and you disarm the shame and power to the vulnerability means safety and safety means trust and trust means.

Speaker 2:

So I want to back up as well. So I kind of jumped into this as if the son and father are having this conversation. But , uh , what about that very first question you're, you're sitting down in Starbucks or a restaurant for breakfast or dinner, whatever it might be. And you're looking in your son's eyes and you say the question, how do you bring it up? What do you ask if that's a place of really, you know, it's very uncomfortable for this dad, but he just has this deep sense that he just has to bring it up and talk about , uh , how, what are the words to ask? What are the words to say ?

Speaker 3:

The , in my case, I asked my kids about their world. I asked them about their peers, ask them about other kids in school. Then , you know, as this, you know, when I asked them about, you know, what goes on in school, you know, is there drugs in your school? Like, do the kids do this, do kids do that again, disarming the spotlight being on them, put it on the world around them. But I assure you if it's in the world, around them, it's in their world. It's part of them. And so I'll ask them a lot, especially my son kind of what goes on amongst his friends. And , and then, you know, once I kinda come at it from that angle of what goes on in his world in terms of the people that are around him , um, then it kind of , at some point there's a door that opens of, you know, what does that mean for you? And some, most of the time, most of the time, nine times out of 10, I don't even have to point it back to him. He'll just, he'll just personalize it at some point with his own personal experience, with whatever that is. And so I normally come at it from the perspective of asking him and I, even it with my daughters too , but I'm asking him about the world, around him, asking him about his peer group and what kind of things are happening in school and all this other kind of stuff. Again, I don't come at it from the direct, put them on a spotlight third degree, what are you doing? You know, all this other kind of stuff. That's just, hasn't about their world. And you know, most of the time they're more than, it's easier for them to describe what other kids around them are doing or what other kids around them experience. Um, and it also just, it just gets the topic out on the table. And you know, maybe, maybe it's a process. Maybe it's not just a one conversation. Maybe you start off just, they're just finding out about their world and getting them to talk about it, saying the P word, you know, I mean, and then just leaving it at that, just letting it be letting that be the end of the conversation. Oh, if it ends, you know, or let letting the conversation go, wherever it goes. And then now you got a door open to come back in the future and you can, you know, kind of bring up, remember when you said so-and-so, you know, so-and-so old friend, you know, did this and this and this. And um, you know, then you can kind of dig deeper and dig deeper in. And eventually, you know, again, especially T these teen boys, if it's a, if it's a dad talking to them , they want to have the conversation they want to, they really do want to, they just don't know how, and they, and there's not a opportunity to , because we just have these go, go, go lives. Um, but if we provide opportunities, then a lot of things will happen just because there's an opportunity to have that conversation.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. We were on the same page because I just was going to ask the question, do we need to do dads need to be in a hurry with this and you're shaking your head? No, and I don't think so either. I think we, as dads need to be patient to allow our sons to talk about it at his own pace. Uh, and to not try to hurry this out of them, because the goal isn't an answer. It's not data. The goal is connection to your son. That's, that's the whole point here. You , you need to be able to create that atmosphere. And I'm not saying it's not there now with guys who are listening, cause you may have an awesome relationship with your son. And this is just a natural part of the conversation. Uh , so you're maybe not as scared to talk about it, or you don't have that natural connection to your son, but maybe you do have a connection, but it's not the emotional connection. Um, obviously as dads, we realized that our relationship to our kids change from the more physical , um, cuddly kind of , uh , you know, do stuff that way. There's a different kind of intimacy that shows up as kids get older, as they learn how to express themselves. And , um, and then of course, when hormones jump into the picture and girls jump into the picture , um, it becomes , uh , a lot more complex or it can be a lot more complex , um, approach, I guess is the word. So anyway, I think it's important to just get that this isn't, this does not need to be hurried. This doesn't need to , um, happen all in one sitting , uh, for sure. Cause you're, you're I think trying to set something up to where you have it ongoing, and I would say intentional conversation as well. Uh, you kind of have an agenda, but not really. You have a topic you'd like to kind of bring up, but, you know, let it happen.

Speaker 3:

The solution to the porn problem is intimacy. The solution to anyone's porn problem is intimacy. How do we get intimacy is the question. Um, and so been dancing around kind of the topic of developing that connection, developing that intimacy between father and son. Um, and so the goal is not to have a conversation about porn. The goal is to have conversations. Exactly the goal is to have connection. The goal is to have intimacy conversations, lead to intimacy. You know, every guy meets girl kind of thing. Every marriage started off with the two of them talking a whole lot. And then normally, because we're guys that fades off over time and all that kind of stuff now, you know, then at some point the guys's , you know, over in the corner, Holly does his grunt when he talks to his wife. But, but , uh, but the goal is conversation. The goal is not to have a, to have a discussion about pornography and the, and when you have conversation, when you have that kind of connection, it'll come up. I mean, it's like I said, I didn't even, I didn't , I hadn't, I mean, my son had a sleepover at a friend's house that's now I haven't even seen him yet today, you know, but to get that text out of the blue, it was like, you know, CU and , and I know beyond a shadow of doubt, I'm fully confident that if he's at some kid's house and you know, if, if a kid wants to begin watching porn , uh , I'm fully confident in my son and be like, nah, no, thanks. I'm just, this is not how I roll. I'm now with that. So, but that starts with conversation that starts with intimacy.

Speaker 2:

I mean, it's having the relationship , um, cause there's going to come a day when you know, your, your son is not going to be directly in your influence in your sphere, under your roof. And how have you equipped your son to make those better choices. Okay. I want to completely change the angle for this conversation. And that is , uh, what about the father who senses he really should talk to his son because he knows his son is , is consuming porn, but there is no shame and he doesn't really care, but the dad does. What's the approach then,

Speaker 3:

First of all, if you have a son, if you have a teenage son, he's probably looking at porn, right? Nine out of 10 boys today, graduated high school, regularly consuming pornography. Maybe yours is the one who, or maybe he's one of the nine. Um, so you don't even have to today is fairly safe to just assume. I mean, if I, if I told you there was a nine out of 10 chance that you would win the Powerball today, next thing you would go do would be to go buy a bunch of Powerball tickets or at least one, if I told you there was a nine out of 10 chance that , um, that your son is looking at porn, you can pretty much just assume that he is and , and just assume it. And you don't even have to assume it like, okay, now I'm assuming I'm going to get confirmation. I'm going to corner you until you admit it. If you just assume it and you just proceed like it, then you don't even really have to have be outcome-driven as far as that conversation, like, I need you to it. You don't need them to admit it. You just need them to be able to connect up with you now. Yeah. If sun is consuming to the point where there is no remorse, there is no shame. I mean, like it's just loud and proud and you know, and they they're consuming porn as a sport then. I mean, at that point again, I think the solution is still intimacy. The solution is still connection, but at some point, do you need some intervention at some point, you know, you need to be more intentional and you need to be more direct in your approach in terms of the why in terms of like in my son, I'd never told him I I'm pretty sure I've never said the words porn is bad. I just, those are just not words that I use just in general, what I do do. And what I have done is explain the effects and explain what it does and explain how it works and explain, you know, just the loneliness that comes with a porn addiction and just the isolation and just the cutoff and all that kind of stuff and the physical effects and , and all those kinds of things. And then, you know, I , I come at it from that perspective. So I don't, I don't even come at it with my own son of just it's bad. You should stop because that, you know, that's normally not very successful just in general, but at the same time, you know, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't let my son walk around with a loaded gun without teaching him gun safety.

Speaker 2:

That's a good point.

Speaker 3:

You know, I mean, it just is what it is. You know, if my son had a peanut allergy, you'd be real sure that when I sent him to school, I'm going to prepare him to live in a world where peanuts could kill him. So when he's really young, that means setting up boundaries and , and all that kind of stuff around him. Don't pack peanuts and have him sit at the peanut table and all that kind of stuff at school. But at some point I need to teach him how to live in a world with peanuts. And, you know, when you go to said, restaurant, they're not gonna have a peanut table at the restaurant. So I got to teach him how to live in a world that he can , um, he can create his own safety, that he can, he can be healthy and he can not have peanuts kill him. So I have to prepare him for that, for that level of responsibility self-responsibility in the future.

Speaker 2:

So it's , uh , if some, if there's a young man who doesn't see the danger, also as dads might see the danger, and there's a chance, dad listening to this, you've been through all that. And not only do you know, the danger you've lived it, and you've gone past that point of it being dangerous, you've had consequences that have happened. And , uh, we've talked back and forth around Kirk's story. And he he's, his life is this idea of circumstances. And that's how free indeed became what it is. And so we have been down that path and have seen the consequences of a porn problem, porn addiction, that ruins things. And if a 14, 15 year old teenage son is not seeing that and all their , all they're experiencing is that, that pleasure of consuming porn and the approach then I'm hearing you say, is to talk about not that porn is bad, which we know it is. It's the effects that are bad, the consequences are bad, and that path does not lead to a good destination.

Speaker 3:

Yeah . I mean, if mom's in the picture, have mom sit down with him and explain how it makes her feel as a woman, the whole notion of pornography. I mean, the foundation of pornography is objectification female objectification primarily. So I have mom sit down and explain, you know, that aspect of it, of, of what objectifying women does to women and, and, and how, you know, he can actually give him purpose, give this some purpose. You can be a hero. You can actually, you know, you can actually , um, you can actually stand up for, and you can be a protector of, of, of female. You know, the, the females of this world by not objectifying women look at that guy on TV, you know, you see how he went to jail, you see him in front of Congress, you see whatever, whatever, I mean, you know, point out the , the whole examples. I mean, you know, it leading to human trafficking, all these other kinds of things expose him to the effects of human trafficking and , and all that kind of stuff. But, but yeah, I mean, if mom's in the picture or any significant woman , um , meaningful woman in his life, have that person explained to him what it's like for a woman to live in an objectified world. And that would bring it home to most teenagers in terms of like, wow, I mean, mom's affected by that , you know, this hurts mom's feelings. And then, you know, next time they do log to that website or that app, you know, I have mom's voice come in the back of their head, you know, like, man, this hurts mom's feelings when I do this, you know, I mean that , that, that right there, that, I mean, that, that could be a, that could be a game changer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. So the conversation that dads to have with their son isn't pornography could be the topic. That's why we're bringing it up here, but it's not just about pornography. It's about the whole picture of that person that you're with. It's about that person's future. As parents, we see a future or at least we have lived a life longer than our kids obviously. And so one of our goals, one of our roles as parents is to be able to say, I've got a perspective to you that you don't have yet. And you don't say it in a condescending way. You don't share it in a condescending way. And as we're saying, you create a safe space for your son to be able to have this, have this conversation. So go back and listen to it again, if you need to, do you have anything else , um, you know, what you think dads could be used or what dads could use for helpful in a conversation with,

Speaker 3:

I like it just hit me just now I'm sitting here really stood on this, the power of mom in this conversation. I mean the power of moms input or, or the moms can have a significant impact in, in this conversation with a teenage son specifically. I mean, no teenage boy wants to hurt his mom, you know, especially if there's a healthy relationship there. I mean, and , and so to have mom come in and explain what it, you know , w how it impacts her, the whole notion of pornography. I mean, come on, man. You know what I mean? That that voice will ring real loud and real clear. The next time he's in front of a screen looking, being tempted or looking at something he shouldn't, but is extremely powerful, but yeah, and in court , and in terms of dad and in that conversation, just talking to the son, you know, just having a conversation is the, is the goal not necessarily resolving the whole porn topic in one conversation, that's, that's not going to do it, build that intimacy.

Speaker 2:

Yep . Build the intimacy, create the space for good, safe conversations . So I hope you've gotten some good out of this , uh, this whole conversation with , uh, with me and Kirk here and being able to , um, build up your relationship. Ultimately, that's what we were hoping to be. You know, we want you to build up your relationship with your son and yeah. Include mom in the picture if possible. And just talk about the importance of , um, how , um, how women are affected in that way. So thank you all for listening to episode 25 of the free indeed podcast . Thanks for

Speaker 1:

Listening to the free indeed podcast. Visit free indeed 30 six.com for more resources, with deeper information and upcoming events. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free stand firm, man , and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.